Hello! Today on Grading Dater, we will look at the Post's coverage of the Avs-Pens game, in which the Avs lost the game 6-3, after the Penguins scored four goals in the third period. The Avs started strong while the Pens looked flat, and thanks in no small part to a magnificent goal from Duchene, the Avalanche had a 3-1 lead at the end of the first period. The Penguins then decided that they would play some hockey, and the second period was a dogfight, and by the third period the Pens' four lines had worn down the Avs' 2.5. Even though the Avs still played a tough game, the Penguins displayed why they're one of the top teams in the NHL.
First off, let's take a quick look at the "Live Chat" thing that Dater has been doing for the games he covers. Basically, it's a chat room where Avs fans can sign in and all type "damnit..." and/or "FIRE SACCO!!!!!!" at the same time whenever the opponent scores a goal. This is a chance to see Dater at his most negative and pessimistic, surrounded by others who are often just as bad. Although there do seem to be a handful of folks there who are genuinely interested in, and appreciative of, smart hockey conversation, it's still a very, very depressing way to spend one's time during a hockey game, and I'd strongly advise against it. It does provide a window on Dater's coverage of the Avs, though, and since it's on the Denver Post web page and it counts as DP coverage, Grading Dater is going to comment on the Live Chat this time, but we'll leave it alone after this.
Showing posts with label refs. Show all posts
Showing posts with label refs. Show all posts
Friday, November 18, 2011
Saturday, March 5, 2011
Avs Mailbag
http://www.denverpost.com/avsmailbag/ci_17522456
In this installment of Dater's Mailbag, he half-answers another six questions with varying results. Each question gets its own individual grade... that's the sort of attention to detail you get here at GradingDater.
The first question is about whether the Avs have been too quick to give up on prospects. The questioner compares the Avs to the Red Wings, who seem to have a never-ending stream of talent coming up from their minor affiliates.
Dater takes a very weak jab at this question, giving one example (Stewart/Shattenkirk) of players the Avs may have traded too soon, but there isn't really an answer here anywhere. He then goes completely off-track to discuss Detroit, for some reason, explaining that they have "defensive problems" and "all those old guys up front." They are both odd criticisms, especially considering they've had injuries at defense but still have the probable Norris winner (again), and that their average age at forward is about 30. And at any rate, pointing out perceived weaknesses on the Red Wings really doesn't address the question about the Avalanche by any stretch of the imagination.
Overall, this was a good question that Dater essentially dodged in order to score cheap points from the Hate-Detroit crowd.
D+
The next question is about Peter Stastny's comments that the Stewart/Johnson trade "destroyed the team." Dater starts with Stastny, but then goes off on a wandering answer about how it may have been a terrible trade, but then again, it may not have. Dater basically waffles here. It's not an answer, but at least it's balanced.
C
The next question is one that I'm sure made Dater wince, as it is about Forsberg. It's a good question and one that needs to be asked: did Forsberg's ill-fated comeback create a distraction to the team?
Dater could have really provided a provocative answer here, but because it's Forsberg, he completely pusses out. He concedes that there may have been a teeny bit of distraction, but claims that
"I don't think you can ever say it was a bad thing to have Peter Forsberg around on your team."
Well, why the hell not? All the evidence you need is right there... they were playing decent hockey at the time he announced he was attempting to come back... and from that day to the day he retired, they won one game, and they're still reeling. Is it the only reason they've been losing? Of course not... the loss of Fleishmann was huge, Stewart and Duchene disappeared, Anderson seemed to pack it in... but to suggest that Forsberg wasn't a distraction is flat-out ridiculous.
Dater completely screwed up this answer, because there's no way Forsberg wasn't a distraction to this team. It was a circus that Dater helped to create... how's that not a distraction? Terrible, terrible answer to a question that really deserved more thought... but I guess Dater doesn't have to worry about Peter asking for his half of their "BFF" necklace back.
F
The next question is about why the Avs do not have a full-time goalie coach, and if it affected the team's goaltending this season. Dater answers that the Avs had Kirk Mclean as a part-time goalie coach... which is really just re-stating the question. Unfortunately, he pretty much leaves it at that. He doesn't answer the question at all... he spends as much time claiming he doesn't have a mancrush on Kyle Cumiskey as he does not answering the question.
D-
The next question asks about the Avalanche's "rash of injuries," and whether their style of play or lack of size has anything to do with it. Another good question... often, Dater picks a few creampuff questions that he can answer easily and look smart in doing so, but the questions this week were actually pretty good. Unfortunately, Dater doesn't put much effort into any of his answers, and that carries through to this one.
Dater's answer is, basically, "size doesn't matter, if it did would Liles be able to play every game?" A guy asks a question about three or four years' worth of injuries, and Dater uses one player, in one season, to support his answer. AD would have been picked apart in debate class in high school.
Marc in Dallas, if you want an actual answer to this question, try mine: Yes, the Avs' lack of size and style of play has likely added to their injury situation somewhat over the last few years. Sure, they've had perhaps more than their share of "freak" injuries (snowblower accidents, pulmonary embolisms), but they've also had plenty of garden-variety hockey injuries, too. They've decided on a team philosophy based on speed and fast-paced play, and so they've built their roster with speedy, often smallish guys to match that style. As a result, they have a bunch of small guys playing a fast style through the neutral zone and then going into the corners against bigger defensemen. The rest of the NHL knows that the way to beat a team like that is to hit them. A lot. When you're skating fast and taking a lot of hits from generally bigger players, you get a lot of injuries.
Dater closes this half-assed attempt by throwing out an "injuries are weird, everybody gets them and the Avs just have got a few more than normal" answer. As I said, this was another good question, but Dater takes the easy way out, demonstrating once again that the mailbag is a great place to get an answer to "Whatever happened to Howler" or "What is Erick Johnson's nickname" type questions, but a lousy place to get a thoughtful and informed answer to a good hockey question.
D+
The last question is regarding Ryan O'Byrne's fairly horrific injury about a week ago, when a skate came up and sliced open the left side of his face. The questioner asks, "why did the refs not blow the whistle?" Dater answers by chiding the ref crew, calling them "idiotic," for failing to blow the whistle, but I'm not so sure the blame is that easy to place.
I don't think anybody, including O'Byrne, realized the extent of that injury. In fact, O'Byrne finished his shift... rarely, if ever, do the refs stop play for a guy who is still skating. Had O'Byrne fallen to the ice grasping at his cheek, I have no doubt that the refs would have blown the whistle right away. But realistically, in a situation like that, the ref has to go by what the player is telling him, and by skating back to the slot and finishing his shift, O'Byrne was telling them that he wasn't that bad.
Now, obviously it was a bad injury after all, but that's hindsight. I think Dater is off-base here in his criticism of the refs that night... but, after being critical of his inability to answer any other question with any sort of authority, I'll give him credit on this one, at least, for picking an answer and sticking to it.
C+
In this installment of Dater's Mailbag, he half-answers another six questions with varying results. Each question gets its own individual grade... that's the sort of attention to detail you get here at GradingDater.
The first question is about whether the Avs have been too quick to give up on prospects. The questioner compares the Avs to the Red Wings, who seem to have a never-ending stream of talent coming up from their minor affiliates.
Dater takes a very weak jab at this question, giving one example (Stewart/Shattenkirk) of players the Avs may have traded too soon, but there isn't really an answer here anywhere. He then goes completely off-track to discuss Detroit, for some reason, explaining that they have "defensive problems" and "all those old guys up front." They are both odd criticisms, especially considering they've had injuries at defense but still have the probable Norris winner (again), and that their average age at forward is about 30. And at any rate, pointing out perceived weaknesses on the Red Wings really doesn't address the question about the Avalanche by any stretch of the imagination.
Overall, this was a good question that Dater essentially dodged in order to score cheap points from the Hate-Detroit crowd.
D+
The next question is about Peter Stastny's comments that the Stewart/Johnson trade "destroyed the team." Dater starts with Stastny, but then goes off on a wandering answer about how it may have been a terrible trade, but then again, it may not have. Dater basically waffles here. It's not an answer, but at least it's balanced.
C
The next question is one that I'm sure made Dater wince, as it is about Forsberg. It's a good question and one that needs to be asked: did Forsberg's ill-fated comeback create a distraction to the team?
Dater could have really provided a provocative answer here, but because it's Forsberg, he completely pusses out. He concedes that there may have been a teeny bit of distraction, but claims that
"I don't think you can ever say it was a bad thing to have Peter Forsberg around on your team."
Well, why the hell not? All the evidence you need is right there... they were playing decent hockey at the time he announced he was attempting to come back... and from that day to the day he retired, they won one game, and they're still reeling. Is it the only reason they've been losing? Of course not... the loss of Fleishmann was huge, Stewart and Duchene disappeared, Anderson seemed to pack it in... but to suggest that Forsberg wasn't a distraction is flat-out ridiculous.
Dater completely screwed up this answer, because there's no way Forsberg wasn't a distraction to this team. It was a circus that Dater helped to create... how's that not a distraction? Terrible, terrible answer to a question that really deserved more thought... but I guess Dater doesn't have to worry about Peter asking for his half of their "BFF" necklace back.
F
The next question is about why the Avs do not have a full-time goalie coach, and if it affected the team's goaltending this season. Dater answers that the Avs had Kirk Mclean as a part-time goalie coach... which is really just re-stating the question. Unfortunately, he pretty much leaves it at that. He doesn't answer the question at all... he spends as much time claiming he doesn't have a mancrush on Kyle Cumiskey as he does not answering the question.
D-
The next question asks about the Avalanche's "rash of injuries," and whether their style of play or lack of size has anything to do with it. Another good question... often, Dater picks a few creampuff questions that he can answer easily and look smart in doing so, but the questions this week were actually pretty good. Unfortunately, Dater doesn't put much effort into any of his answers, and that carries through to this one.
Dater's answer is, basically, "size doesn't matter, if it did would Liles be able to play every game?" A guy asks a question about three or four years' worth of injuries, and Dater uses one player, in one season, to support his answer. AD would have been picked apart in debate class in high school.
Marc in Dallas, if you want an actual answer to this question, try mine: Yes, the Avs' lack of size and style of play has likely added to their injury situation somewhat over the last few years. Sure, they've had perhaps more than their share of "freak" injuries (snowblower accidents, pulmonary embolisms), but they've also had plenty of garden-variety hockey injuries, too. They've decided on a team philosophy based on speed and fast-paced play, and so they've built their roster with speedy, often smallish guys to match that style. As a result, they have a bunch of small guys playing a fast style through the neutral zone and then going into the corners against bigger defensemen. The rest of the NHL knows that the way to beat a team like that is to hit them. A lot. When you're skating fast and taking a lot of hits from generally bigger players, you get a lot of injuries.
Dater closes this half-assed attempt by throwing out an "injuries are weird, everybody gets them and the Avs just have got a few more than normal" answer. As I said, this was another good question, but Dater takes the easy way out, demonstrating once again that the mailbag is a great place to get an answer to "Whatever happened to Howler" or "What is Erick Johnson's nickname" type questions, but a lousy place to get a thoughtful and informed answer to a good hockey question.
D+
The last question is regarding Ryan O'Byrne's fairly horrific injury about a week ago, when a skate came up and sliced open the left side of his face. The questioner asks, "why did the refs not blow the whistle?" Dater answers by chiding the ref crew, calling them "idiotic," for failing to blow the whistle, but I'm not so sure the blame is that easy to place.
I don't think anybody, including O'Byrne, realized the extent of that injury. In fact, O'Byrne finished his shift... rarely, if ever, do the refs stop play for a guy who is still skating. Had O'Byrne fallen to the ice grasping at his cheek, I have no doubt that the refs would have blown the whistle right away. But realistically, in a situation like that, the ref has to go by what the player is telling him, and by skating back to the slot and finishing his shift, O'Byrne was telling them that he wasn't that bad.
Now, obviously it was a bad injury after all, but that's hindsight. I think Dater is off-base here in his criticism of the refs that night... but, after being critical of his inability to answer any other question with any sort of authority, I'll give him credit on this one, at least, for picking an answer and sticking to it.
C+
Saturday, February 12, 2011
All Things Avs blog: Dater goes mental on officials for helping Jackets bully poor Forsberg
http://blogs.denverpost.com/avs/2011/02/11/postgame-avs-blue-jackets-foppa-and-the-not-ready-for-prime-time-players/6463/
This is Dater's postgame thoughts from the Avs/Blue Jackets game, which Columbus won 3-1. It is pretty standard Dater whining, sky-is-falling, these guys are pathetic/they have no heart stuff, until this point:
Where to start with this? Well, first of all, if you didn't see the game, it was actually called fairly even. The Jackets had two power plays, and the Avs had one. That's not saying it was called well, but it was called the same for both teams, and in hockey that's about as much as you can ask for. The Stastny call he mentions was not a great call considering the things that were not called, but neither was it as innocent as Dater makes it out to be. As in ANY hockey game, there were missed calls, but the officiating didn't figure into this game at all.
Dater seems to not have noticed that Forsberg pretty much grabbed Pahlsson by the back of the neck and pulled him to the ice; the way he remembers it, Forsberg was "wrestled to the ground behind the play." In fact, if this game had been called the way Dater apparently wants to see it called, Forsberg would have probably taken at least as many penalties as he drew... he played the same sort of game he always did, which frankly I was happy to see. Forsberg gives as good as he gets, and that apparently hasn't changed, floppy ankles and all.
Am I saying that criticisms of the officiating are improper in a newspaper setting? Not at all... but there is a professional way to go about it, and there's a rabid homer fanboy way to go about it. That Dater chose the latter is the issue here.
There was zero professionalism in this entry... it starts with a Dater standard: "I usually don't (blank), but..." and then he goes on to do exactly what he says he never does. If also featured Dater's typically snotty tone, a real journalism no-no. It included personal insults -- including, incredibly, a charge of xenophobia -- directed at Walkom (apparently Dater does not realize that there were two refs on the ice allowing Forsberg to get mugged, as Walkom gets 100% of his wrath here). He threw in an unnecessary sideswipe at Pahlsson, sarcastically gave the officiating the first star of the game, and he topped it off by donning his tinfoil helmet to assert that the NHL has put crooked officials in place, apparently in an effort to ensure that the league will thrive by allowing skilled, star players to be easily neutralized?
I mean, seriously... how cranky is Dater on this one? So the refs missed a couple calls. Did it really warrant 250 bile-filled words for a game between two second-division teams? But he really went for broke here, and I'm not sure why, because as I said earlier, the officiating had no bearing on this game. The difference here, I think, is that Saint Peter was on the ice, and therefore any and every missed call involving Forsberg is a Crime Against Hockey! Dater ultimately comes across here as the unabashed Forsberg fanboy he really is.
The rest of the entry reverts to the tone it started with: no-insight, cliche comments like "I question [Stastny's] fire to win," and "Where is the emotion out there?" Basically, this blog entry is an insight into nothing more than all the things Dater was cranky about before going to bed last night. I suppose there is a place for that in the blogosphere, but I fail to see how it fits in with professional newspaper coverage of the Colorado Avalanche.
Grade: F This useless yet oddly entertaining blog entry includes a classic Dater rant, reminiscent of the anti-ESPN rant from a few years back. Too bad that he didn't put nearly as much thought into this as he did then... the ESPN rant was silly, but at least there was an actual argument in there somewhere if you took the time to peel away the junior-high taunts and name-calling. This is just frustration... if the team is frustrated, report it. I don't really care, however, if Dater is frustrated.
This is Dater's postgame thoughts from the Avs/Blue Jackets game, which Columbus won 3-1. It is pretty standard Dater whining, sky-is-falling, these guys are pathetic/they have no heart stuff, until this point:
Referee Stephen Walkom didn’t dignify the proceedings tonight. I try to stay away from analyzing the referees, but they do a job just like any other guy out there and deserve to a look once in a while. Walkom let a few blatant calls go tonight, some involving Forsberg. Overrated, overpaid Sammi Pahlsson pulled his usual clutch and grab, hit’em-after-the-whistle routine once tonight on Forsberg, and old-school, time-has-passed-him-by Walkom just swallowed his whistle and let Forsberg get wrestled to the ground behind the play.
Guys like Walkom should do the hockey world a favor and retire, because he doesn’t know anything about today’s faster game and how to call it. He seems to want every game to go back to the clutch-and-grab disaster it was prior to the last lockout, and that ain’t the way it’s done any more Steve.
Better to take that league pension and go back to the backwaters of the sport you so clearly miss. Nobody else in the modern world does. But one of Walkom’s good ole Canadian boys, Rick Nash, got looked at crossways by American Paul Stastny in the second period tonight and Walkom blew his whistle and administered a slashing penalty – a slashing penalty, on a guy whose stick never actually touched Nash? Yessir, two minutes in the sin bin for Stats, while more rodeo hockey could ensue on guys like Forsberg without consequence.
So, first star tonight to Stephen Walkom, for giving us all a nice circa 1998 game out there. Well done, NHL marketers.
Where to start with this? Well, first of all, if you didn't see the game, it was actually called fairly even. The Jackets had two power plays, and the Avs had one. That's not saying it was called well, but it was called the same for both teams, and in hockey that's about as much as you can ask for. The Stastny call he mentions was not a great call considering the things that were not called, but neither was it as innocent as Dater makes it out to be. As in ANY hockey game, there were missed calls, but the officiating didn't figure into this game at all.
Dater seems to not have noticed that Forsberg pretty much grabbed Pahlsson by the back of the neck and pulled him to the ice; the way he remembers it, Forsberg was "wrestled to the ground behind the play." In fact, if this game had been called the way Dater apparently wants to see it called, Forsberg would have probably taken at least as many penalties as he drew... he played the same sort of game he always did, which frankly I was happy to see. Forsberg gives as good as he gets, and that apparently hasn't changed, floppy ankles and all.
Am I saying that criticisms of the officiating are improper in a newspaper setting? Not at all... but there is a professional way to go about it, and there's a rabid homer fanboy way to go about it. That Dater chose the latter is the issue here.
There was zero professionalism in this entry... it starts with a Dater standard: "I usually don't (blank), but..." and then he goes on to do exactly what he says he never does. If also featured Dater's typically snotty tone, a real journalism no-no. It included personal insults -- including, incredibly, a charge of xenophobia -- directed at Walkom (apparently Dater does not realize that there were two refs on the ice allowing Forsberg to get mugged, as Walkom gets 100% of his wrath here). He threw in an unnecessary sideswipe at Pahlsson, sarcastically gave the officiating the first star of the game, and he topped it off by donning his tinfoil helmet to assert that the NHL has put crooked officials in place, apparently in an effort to ensure that the league will thrive by allowing skilled, star players to be easily neutralized?
I mean, seriously... how cranky is Dater on this one? So the refs missed a couple calls. Did it really warrant 250 bile-filled words for a game between two second-division teams? But he really went for broke here, and I'm not sure why, because as I said earlier, the officiating had no bearing on this game. The difference here, I think, is that Saint Peter was on the ice, and therefore any and every missed call involving Forsberg is a Crime Against Hockey! Dater ultimately comes across here as the unabashed Forsberg fanboy he really is.
The rest of the entry reverts to the tone it started with: no-insight, cliche comments like "I question [Stastny's] fire to win," and "Where is the emotion out there?" Basically, this blog entry is an insight into nothing more than all the things Dater was cranky about before going to bed last night. I suppose there is a place for that in the blogosphere, but I fail to see how it fits in with professional newspaper coverage of the Colorado Avalanche.
Grade: F This useless yet oddly entertaining blog entry includes a classic Dater rant, reminiscent of the anti-ESPN rant from a few years back. Too bad that he didn't put nearly as much thought into this as he did then... the ESPN rant was silly, but at least there was an actual argument in there somewhere if you took the time to peel away the junior-high taunts and name-calling. This is just frustration... if the team is frustrated, report it. I don't really care, however, if Dater is frustrated.
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